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[livesocial]

Hey there, we're a small online start-up focused on creating kick-ass marketing platforms for games developers and publishers. We're launching a promotional community site, specifically built for games developers next month and we're inviting you to be an Alpha launch party for free!

More details are here: http://bit.ly/KI5XT

Online application here: http://bit.ly/U0aEq

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

the marketing copy on that site is so bad (the promises so astronomical and impossible to keep) that it defies the idea that it was written by a human being. i'm not a marketer, but here is a marketing tip: you can't trust people to be naive. you can't say that a site will have millions of visitors one day when it has about 10 visitors daily currently and expect people to believe it, for instance. that's either relying on the naivety of people or it is itself being naive at how difficult it is to bring a site to millions of visitors. thinking positive is good and all, but it feels a lot like an empty promise if you're saying that's why people should join.

[Klaim]

Please don't use url compression on forums, there is no need and it makes your link suspect. I want to see where I go if I click a link. Only Twitter have valid limitation for url compression. I'll not trust you link until you make it explicit.

[Oddbob]

 Here at  Live Social we've  learnt the  art of being able to type out a  URL and  hyperlink to  infinity. You'll  be  constantly amazed at  just how many  hyperlinks we can  put into a post to  make it absolutely unreadable to the  human eye.

Just so web 2.0. Lots of guff and nothing concrete at all other than "come to our site, we'll be big, promise!". So yeah, why should anyone sign up again? What's in -our- interests to do so, not yours? I couldn't find an answer to that bit...

[Craig Stern]

You lost me at "Think up some swag." The whole point of a site like this is to save me time marketing my game, but it sounds like me helping you market your site is a requirement for participation.

[livesocial]

Wow, you lot are a negative bunch in here! Sorry you don't like our blog, and sorry for the compressed links...just saving time by copying and pasting from our Twitter announcement itself.

As for why you'd do this...it seems pretty straightforward to us, but perhaps we're not making it clear: We're building a community site, called 'SwagPak' aimed at gamers, but designed especially for developers. It's quite simple really...all gamers love swag, and getting cool stuff....so we promote a game and the cool stuff...you get marketing exposure and hopefully good word of mouth sales and buzz.

Of course, only a few people will win some actual swag, but we want as many people as possible seeing the competition, and sharing with others that it's tied to your game.

This was simply an invitation to promote something during our very early alpha launch next month. If you're still interested, give us a shout. We are trying to build this thing for your benefit believe it or not! You can't please everyone...

[Oddbob]

Erm, but we have to supply said swag? We can do that from our own sites to far better effect right now because you appear to have forgot to mention -how- it'll actually benefit us beyond "hey guyzzz, you'll get marketing buzz" which er, um, isn't exactly anything tangible or guaranteed.

So you're asking developers to a) sign up to a site with no track record and no visible track record of what the owners have done so far b) punt out their own money/wares for something that may/may not have any benefit that you absolutely cannot guarantee one way or the other and c) take your word for it that it's gonna be big.

Yeah, ok. It's not negative, it's called being sensible. Gamers love swag+your game != MEGA HAPPY FLUFF BONUS y'know?

So, again, what's the tangible benefit to us you can provide?

[livesocial]

Understood Rob, I totally hear where you are coming from. The devil in the detail is that we're a well-funded promotions agency, that is going to pump a lot of money into building SwagPak.com into a community of pre-registered gamers, giving you another outlet and exposure for your game. However, at this stage, we haven't even launched, so we're just looking for some friendly developers who are interested in giving this a shot with us. This could range from a few promo codes that cost next to nothing, or perhaps some stuff you'd already created as part of your marketing. Unlocking DLCs is another great zero-cost option of course.

Apart from the audience we plan to grow on your behalf, we'll provide a number of other tangible commercial benefits. If you're already doing competitions or promotions yourself, there is a good chance you're breaking legal obligations in one or more countries or regions. We'll take care of that and work to make sure it's a quick and simple process to get a competition set up. Also, we won't just let gamers enter by coming to us, we want to provide both landing pages (that are custom/dedicated to your game, even a distinct URL) and widgets to embed in your own promotions. We also plan in the longer term to automatically push in-game achievements out to social networks and other online media on your behalf, purely to drive interest in your game.

For you in particular Rob, I'd recommend waiting to see how we get on...the proof will be in the pudding. We like to think we're a good bunch of honest guys doing this and that we can help promote games. If we're not, no one loses....we're offering to do the alpha for nothing. And if that's not enough....how about this: We'll put some money ourselves into CREATING some swag, if you don't have it already. It won't be an Audi R8 of course....but most gamers are happy with a t-shirt or a model of something from your game.

Hope I'm helping now?

[bateleur]

Hope I'm helping now?

You were helping before too. The difference between the indie world and the corporate world is that there the hype and handshaking happens in public and the cynicism behind closed doors in the boardroom. Here, we rip apart your business model and laugh unkindly in public - keeps our overheads low.

I'd be quite interested in your proposal were it not for the fact that our game won't be launch ready in 2009. Good luck with the site, though. Prove the skeptics wrong!

[Snakey]

The could be silly of me, but I still don't see any actual problem here. It almost feels like this is a solution to a non existent problem.

[Jason Bakker]

Yeah, I'd be more interested if you actually created the swag, so if I signed up to be on the site I'd just choose [ x ] figurine of main character [ x ] T-Shirt, supply designs, and then if people chose to buy through SwagPack they could pay a bit more and get the swag along with the game, kind of like an indie game collector's edition. The difference is that I'm busy enough making the actual game to be bothered going through the logistics of creating swag myself, especially certain types such as figurines.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

i also think this overestimates the percent of a game's audience who want "swag" of that game. you typically only get people wanting that kind of stuff if they're die-hard fans. if a game has an audience of a million there are enough die-hard fans to want figurines and whatever, if your game has an audience of 1000 there may just be one guy in that 1000 who wants a figurine or a t-shirt.

[obscure]

...we're a well-funded promotions agency, that is going to pump a lot of money into building SwagPak.com into a community of pre-registered gamers, giving you another outlet and exposure for your game. However, at this stage, we haven't even launched, so we're just looking for some friendly developers who are interested in giving this a shot with us.

OK I call cart before horse I'm afraid. Your business is to help developers promote their games which be definition requires an audience. How can you test it if you don't have the audience yet. Any test would fail because there is no one to see the promotion.   

....If you're already doing competitions or promotions yourself, there is a good chance you're breaking legal obligations in one or more countries or regions.

Sorry but I am going to have to call you on this. Where exactly is it illegal to give away prizes?

....how about this: We'll put some money ourselves into CREATING some swag, if you don't have it already. It won't be an Audi R8 of course....but most gamers are happy with a t-shirt or a model of something from your game.

This is a great offer but still pretty pointless if the audience doesn't exist yet. As Snakey said this seems to be a solution looking for a problem. There are lots of game related sites out there that already have audiences and are happy to run competitions. They have compelling editorial, reviews AND competitions. Competing with them will be an up hill struggle.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

there are actually quite a few laws against competitions -- have you ever read the rules of a sweepstakes or something? it's fraught with all kinds of jargon. for instance, it's against the law to hold a contest and to have someone who is a family member of yours or an employee enter the contest (or win it), or even be a relative of one of your employees (for instance, i can't enter the gamestop/gamespot indie game contest cause my sister works there). it's also illegal to require that someone play or buy something to enter, you have to also allow people who didn't buy anything to enter. you also can't hold skill-based contests, like asking people to solve a puzzle. there are all kinds of ridiculous legal rules like that. it's stupid, but that's the government for you. and those are just the *federal* laws, each state also has its own laws

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweepstakes

that said, there's no evidence that this 'livesocial' guy is any better at complying with these rules than you are

[obscure]

there are actually quite a few laws against competitions -- have you ever read the rules of a sweepstakes or something?

Sweepstakes and lotteries and gambling are completely different from give aways. Game review web sites and magazines routinely run competitions to give away swag. Only if you start charging people to enter does it become a lottery etc and fall foul of legal requirements.